[mou] religion, money, sex, and, now, birding?

[Jim Ryan]

Thanks Sharon,
For putting politely what I was mulling over.  People need to just grow up
and get over the fact that like the bumper sticker that should make
millions will say:

DISAGREEMENT HAPPENS

Official lists and counts are that way for (usually) good reasons. Part of
science as well as cogent mundane communication is arriving upon commonly
agreed terminology and 'rules'.

Otherwise we blather on, thinking we are conveying information (because we
know what we mean) and others even may think that THEY know what you mean,
but if you don't clarify and define/limit your terms you are both blowing
smoke and wasting time.  Beleive me I've done it (in college discussing the
friendly topic of abortion) and nearly come to blows doing so.  I learned to
clarify terms and follow the conventional rules of communication to
understand and be understood.  Besides, you need to know the rules in order
to properly break the rules.

The extensive knowledge of the MOU records committee has deemed the Chukar a
non-countable species at this time.  IF you want to PROVE they have a
resident population in the state that survives/arrives from year to year so
we can count them, we await your data. Until then, they are not offcially
countable.  Certainly a scientist should understand that.

If you are comfortable making up your own rules, don't expect others on a
public forum to agree with you or trust your numbers or even possibly your
IDs. If your thinking doesn't stand up to public scrutiny, then don't be
surprised if you are called on it.
-- 
Sincerely,

Jim Ryan on St. Paul's Westside
651-308-0234 cell

Are You Russian or American??

When NASA first started sending up astronauts, they quickly discovered that
ball-point pens would not work in zero gravity. To combat this problem, NASA
scientists spent a decade and $12 billion developing a pen that writes in
zero gravity, upside-down, on almost any surface including glass and at
temperatures ranging from below freezing to over 300 C. The Russians used a
pencil.

"A man who dares to waste an hour of time has not discovered the value of
life." - Charles Darwin

On 8/14/07, Sharon Stiteler <birdchick at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  LOL, Jim!
>
>
> Okay, I thought all the disagreement and discussion was part of the fun.
> And honestly, if people think this birding listserv is hostile, they should
> take a look at some of the other state bird listservs.  I've yet to see
> profanity show up here.  We've got pretty good--not perfect, but who has
> that?
>
>
> I think we encourage discussion and disagreement, but the key is to not
> take it personally.  If you're going ask questions, don't be upset when you
> get answers if they aren't what you want to hear.  So, if the records
> committee finds your sighting unacceptable?  Repeat to yourself, "It's not
> me, it's my documentation."  You report a chukar and people on the listservs
> tell you it's not countable on an official list?  Take a big shrug and enjoy
> the fact that you saw an escaped bird attempting to stake a claim in the
> wild.  You saw an ivory-billed woodpecker at Weaver Dunes and no one
> believes you?  Don't sweat it, we still love you anyway.
>
>
> Sharon
>
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>
>
>  On Aug 14, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Jim Williams wrote:
>
>   Are we to add birding and its many avenues to that list of things one
> supposedly cannot discuss without risk of offense? Is it to be religion,
> money, sex, and birding?
>
>
> Good grief!
>
>
> Jim Williams
> Wayzata
>
>
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>
> On Aug 14, 2007, at 2:08 PM, Richard Wood wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> Pastor Al seems, IMO, to be bent on taking this list's discussions into
> areas that get people yelled at and called names by other users of the
> list.  I, for one, don't think that is necessarily a good thing to have
> happen.
>
>
> I don't think he does it on purpose, and I enjoy it when he does, but
> frankly, most people don't like those of us that question things (we come
> off as being critical?), and I think all it does it cause a lot of trouble
> and lead to (potential) hurt feelings.
>
>
> Take the recent discussion on record keeping, for example.  I wouldn't
> have voluntarily written about my "angst" toward the record keepers, but
> when Al posted, I replied, and it led to a big brehawa.  I was called by one
> person, whom shall remain nameless, a "troublemaker", when I don't think  I
> am.  A member of the MOU called me "critical", which again, I don't think I
> am.  I do question things, because I am a scientist.
>
>
> My point is that we need to think seriously about when we post forays into
> "controversial" areas.  Does one want to post a note that is going to make
> others dislike each other, probably not. But we should all ask ourselves
> that each time we post a "question" to others on a list such as this.  Do
> you really want to create a situation (even unknowingly) where others will
> almost literally be at each other's throats?
>
>
> Good birding,
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
> Hastings, MN
> rwoodphd at yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Sharon Stiteler <birdchick at gmail.com>
> To: Pastor Al Schirmacher <pastoral at princetonfreechurch.net>
> Cc: mnbird at lists.mnbird.net; mou-net at moumn.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:44:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [mou] [mnbird] Suspicious Birds
>
>
> Greater Roadrunner.
>
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> Sharon Stiteler
> www.birdchick.com
> Minneapolis, MN
>
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> On Aug 14, 2007, at 12:55 PM, Pastor Al Schirmacher wrote:
>
>
>
> John & Chris' posts bring up a question - besides Chukars and Northern
> Bobwhites, what other birds would arouse your (escapee/release/too soon to
> be counted) suspicions in the state?
>
>
> Al Schirmacher
> Princeton, MN
> Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties
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>
>
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> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
> knows.
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>
>
>
>
>
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